Founder of Military Religious Freedom Foundation on Christian Nationalism

Michael L. “Mikey” Weinstein is an undisputed leader of the national movement to restore the obliterated wall separating church and state in the most technologically lethal organization ever created by humankind: the United States armed forces. Described by Harper’s magazine as “the constitutional conscience of the U.S. military, a man determined to force accountability,” Mikey’s family has a long and distinguished U.S. military history spanning three consecutive generations of military academy graduates and over 130 years of combined active duty military service in every major combat engagement our country has been in from World War I to the current Global War on Terror. Mikey is a 1977 Honor Graduate of the United States Air Force Academy. He left Mr. Perot’s employ in 2006 to focus his full-time attention on the nonprofit charitable foundation he founded to directly battle the far-right militant radical evangelical religious fundamentalists: the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

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Scott Douglas Jacobsen: So, we’re back again with Mikey Weinstein. We’re in the final stretch of the federal election season in the United States. What are the main concerns coming your way? What issues are you identifying outside of those directly affecting your constituencies during this election? First, we are a 501(c)(3), so we can’t tell anyone how to vote, but we can certainly discuss the issues involved here.

Mike Weinstein: If anyone has read Margaret Atwood’s The Handmaid’s Tale, with its dystopian portrayal of a Christian Nationalist United States, that offers a striking example of what we’re trying to prevent. It’s a simple question to answer, Scott. Our biggest concern is that we were the first organization to sound the alarm on what eventually became known as Christian Nationalism. We’ve been addressing it since the early 2000s.

For many years, people accused us of wearing tinfoil hats. But here we are now. We first identified this threat in the early 2000s and are now in our 21st year of fighting it. I know it’s Friday, and I might be waxing a bit philosophical. Still, when Christian nationalism infiltrates our police force, firefighters, sewage departments, public schools, and legislatures, it’s already alarming. However, when it reaches the technologically most lethal organization our species has ever created—the U.S. military, with all its nuclear weapons, drones, laser-guided, and conventional weapons—it’s not just an issue or a challenge. It’s a national security threat to this country and the world.

We are working to prevent what we see as the ultimate manifestation of Christian nationalism merging with the United States military—the technologically most lethal organization ever created.

This situation has many dimensions, but it’s easy to understand. This is not some complex meal like Chateaubriand—it’s a hamburger. In other words, you cannot use your military authority to impose a weaponized version of the gospel of Jesus Christ on helpless subordinates.

We have a press release coming out soon. A day or two ago, I sent you a letter about an Air Force group commander who forced his subordinate squadron commanders and all members to watch a controversial Christian film. While I can’t name the film, it shouldn’t be too hard to guess.

Unlike Israel, which lacks a formal constitution, America has one, and a fundamental part of it is the separation of church and state. Our founding framers looked at European history and saw that much of the horror resulted from clerics wielding state power, such as Cromwell in England. We didn’t have to look far: the Salem witch trials in our history were a strong warning about what happens when theological perspectives gain governmental power. Many Muslim-majority countries, for example, lack separation between mosque and state, which provides a clear example of the risks we are trying to prevent here.

But in America, we do have that separation. We have it here for a reason. November 5 is the most consequential moment in the history of this country, if not the most consequential in the history of the West or arguably the world. In past conflicts, like the Civil War, the Revolutionary War, and the French and Indian War, there was no social media, no nuclear weapons, no drones, or laser-guided missiles. So, it’s a terrifying prospect.

I don’t know what’s going to happen. I’d rather not be a doomsday predictor. Still, it’s hard to see how, no matter who wins on November 5, this country may avoid some semblance of a civil war with potentially blood spilled on the streets. It’s indeed a difficult time. From what we deal with at the foundation, you may remember that last summer, certain MAGA members of the U.S. House of Representatives tried to amend the largest part of the federal budget, the National Defense Authorization Act—the Pentagon funding bill. They attempted, without open disclosure, to make it a felony for anyone in the U.S. military to reach out to us for help.

Our organization’s name was mentioned three times, and their president mentioned me personally in connection with that amendment. We caught it in time and worked for six months with Senate Democrats to remove it before it reached Biden’s desk in those quiet days between Christmas and New Year’s. I often feel, and I wonder if it’s similar to your experience, Scott, that our enemies better define us than our friends. We certainly expect to be targeted if MAGA gains control, and we need to know what’s coming with the House and Senate.

We can already see what’s happening on the Supreme Court, which essentially granted Trump immunity in a recent ruling. I’ve touched on many topics. Still, we’re having this conversation during an especially uncertain time, with dark clouds gathering quickly. Suppose they’re permitted to control the machinery of the state here in America. In that case, it’s hard to see how there won’t be violence.

Jacobsen: Recently, the United States Air Force Academy’s Superintendent, Lieutenant General Tony Bauernfeind, submitted a memo affirming the need for religious neutrality, aligned with Air Force Instruction 1-1, Section 2.16. This section prohibits religious favoritism within the U.S. military. You praised him for this. What about the interaction and his actions stood out to you?

Weinstein: I’m glad you mentioned that. This was the first time a senior Air Force official acknowledged the existence of this regulation. We’ve worked very hard at the foundation for years, collaborating with key senior personnel at Air Force Headquarters and the Pentagon, who showed courage. These particular generals and other leaders helped advance what was originally Air Force Instruction 1-1, Section 2.12. It required that leaders at all levels in the Air Force ensure their words and actions can’t be reasonably construed as supporting one faith over another or none at all. This eventually evolved into Section 2.16, which reinforces the same principle.

So we did, yes. We put out a release praising him. We also asked him to stay out of our client’s business at the Air Force Academy. I’m a graduate, and three of my kids are. Because before this, he’d crossed us on three separate occasions. He’s only been the superintendent since August 2, Scott. He last came there three months ago, yet he got on our radar almost immediately.

In his change-of-command speech, he reportedly told his audience of cadets, faculty, and staff about something he called “perfect spiritual beings.” After three instances of interfering with our clients there—cadets, faculty, and staff—we have over 100 clients at the Academy—he finally did something right. So, credit where it’s due.

Using a baseball analogy, he’s now batting 1 for 4. The first three times, he swung and missed. However, this recent action strongly supported an Air Force directive that was not just advisory. As a former judge advocate and an attorney, I know it’s a directive with legal teeth. Violating it can lead to prosecution under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).

So, yes, we praised him. But we have no formal relationship with the Academy. That was severed in August 2010 when the then-superintendent, Mike Gould, refused to act against an organization called Cadets for Christ, a Christian nationalist, dominionist group that was out of control. That’s when we broke off relations. The Academy became ground zero in our fight, which began on February 4, 2004. That’s when Mel Gibson’s movie, The Passion of the Christ, emerged. We often call it The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre or Freddy vs. Jesus. There was intense pressure from the senior officer and senior cadet command chain for cadets, faculty, and staff to see it. If you’ve seen it, you’ll remember it. It’s astonishing when commanders make it mandatory for subordinates to watch a film like that.

Today, we’re releasing a statement about another Air Force commander who forced subordinates to watch a Christian film. We have yet to reveal the title or location. Still, this action is a blatant violation of Air Force Instruction 1-1, Section 2.16, violating the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution. It also conflicts with Article VI, Clause 3, which states that there should be no religious test for public office. I might be mixing up the references. Still, it breaches various directives, federal and state regulations, and case law.

Until people face real consequences for this behavior, change won’t happen. Imagine if there were a 70 mph speed limit on a highway in Vancouver, and people regularly drove 130 mph because there were no consequences. We’ve been calling for someone to be court-martialed for violating the civil rights of military members for over two decades, and we’re still waiting. We’ve seen people get fired and receive letters of reprimand or counseling, but we have yet to see real accountability.

We’ve seen some people suddenly have their careers derailed, but we would like to demonstrate how essential it is to recognize this civil right for military members. We also have clients across all eighteen national security agencies, including the big ones everyone knows—the CIA, NSA, FBI, and so on. We have clients in the U.S. Coast Guard, part of the Department of Homeland Security, not DOD, and in the U.S. Maritime Service, specifically the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy under the Department of Transportation.

Most of our clients are within the DOD. When a service member is even gently evangelized by their military superior, they can’t exactly say, “Get out of my face, sir or ma’am.” They risk facing a court-martial for insubordination, so they come to us. We provide what we call AARP—not the organization for seniors, but Anonymity, Action, Results, and Protection.

We’ve never compromised the identity of any of our clients, and we never will. I’ve been asked by a judge in federal court to reveal clients’ names, and I said, “I won’t do it. Put me in jail if you must, but I won’t do it.” Protecting the sanctity of our clients’ identities is paramount.

We started with just five clients in 2004-2005, even before the foundation was officially established, primarily at the Air Force Academy. We’re approaching 91,000 clients, a milestone we expect to reach soon. It’s a tough, hard fight. I didn’t ask to become a public figure; this role found me. They don’t teach you how to start a civil rights advocacy organization in law school or as an undergrad at the Academy.

If you’re a professional athlete or a Hollywood star, being a public figure might be “cool.” But in my line of work, there are four things: lonely, dangerous, brutal, and expensive. We have dogs—not pets but elite-level protection German Shepherds. They’re expensive, yes, but necessary defense weapons. We have firearms, personal bodyguards, and a strong relationship with local law enforcement, and we’re always watching our backs. Even simple outings like going to a movie or a restaurant require constant vigilance. We’re labelled part of the “enemies from within,” a term Trump has used.

The U.S. Congress has never attempted to target Planned Parenthood or the ACLU the way they did us recently, trying to, in effect, legislate us out of existence. We wear that as a red badge of courage, a sign that we’re getting under the right people’s skin, but it’s a tough battle. I’m not a politician; I’m a civil rights advocate. America has an incredible number of nuclear weapons and a vast number of power levers. It’s dangerous when those levers fall into the hands of people who feel led not by established case law or the U.S. Constitution but by a particularly weaponized interpretation of a 2,000- or 3,000-year-old text.

This isn’t a “Houston, we have a problem” situation. As I said before, we have a national security threat within our own country, just as serious as external threats from ISIS, Al Qaeda, or the Taliban. People don’t like hearing that.

Jacobsen: Thank you for the opportunity and your time, Mikey.