Human Welfare, Scientific Skepticism, and Equality: An Interview with Andrew Copson

Andrew Copson is a British humanist leader, writer, and advocate born in 1980 in Warwickshire, England. He is Chief Executive of Humanists UK and President of Humanists International. Educated at Balliol College, Oxford, he has championed secularism, human rights, and inclusive education. Copson frequently represents humanist perspectives in national and international forums, including the UN. He has authored and edited multiple works on secularism and humanism and speaks widely in the media and at public events. Copson, who was raised non-religious, emphasizes human welfare, scientific skepticism, and equality, and lives with his spouse, Mark Wardrop, in a civil partnership.

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Scott Douglas Jacobsen: Andrew, thanks for speaking with us as your term as President of Humanists International comes to a close. Looking back, let’s start at the beginning. How was the non‑religious, working‑class environment in Nuneaton, Warwickshire, influential on your humanist perspectives?

Copson: You’re a good interviewer! You do your background research! Well, the late twentieth century in England was a secularising time and place in any case but my experience of working class life in a (post-)industrial Midlands was certainly so. Life revolved around family, work, and community in the inclusive sense. The social institutions that I remember were either civic, sustained by the town council, or secular in that they were provided by the miners’ welfare or other social schemes. If I think back to it now I can see how that environment instilled a practical humanism – the idea that ethics arise from human needs and social living, and that community solidarity is part of the good life. It wasn’t overtly philosophical, but it provided a grounding in the reality that non-religious lives are just as meaningful, ethical, and full as any other. It certainly made the claims of religion to be the sole source of morality (when I encountered those claims in later life) seem abstract and disconnected from the real experience of many decent people. In fact I talk about this quite a bit because I think it is something that is often forgotten, but a large proportion of English working class life has been practically humanist for many decades now. That’s very different from some other countries where religious bodies provide the social institutions of community life.

Jacobsen: How was your time at King Henry VIII School and then achieving a first-class degree in Ancient and Modern History at Balliol College, Oxford, formative for the intellectual foundation for your humanism?

Copson: You’re right to ask the question in that way, because I do think my formal education played a big part in supplementing the implicit humanism of my childhood with something a bit more defined. The first thing to say is that my secondary schooling could not have been more different from my home environment. I was very fortunate that, when I was young, there was a government programme which paid for children from poor families who passed certain exams at age 11 to go to private school. If you were poor enough, it didn’t just pay for the education but also school trips, uniforms, sports kit, dinners – everything. It was called the “assisted place scheme” and it was a life-changing experience for many children from poorer backgrounds in the years it was operating from 1979 to 1997. So I was in the unusual position in England of having an elite education for free. That school education changed my life. History, literature, but particularly Classics, which were the subjects I ended up most in love with, are suffused with humanist values – critical thinking, imaginative sympathy, understanding context and tracing the development of ideas. Latin and Greek – and Athenian literature in particular – have profoundly shaped my worldview and my inner life and what the classicist and humanist Gilbert Murray called “Hellenic humanism” still provides many of my cultural reference points. And then of course, studying history reveals the contingency of beliefs, the discontinuities and continuities of societies throughout time, the ongoing and dynamic nature of social change, and the often-fraught relationship between conservative religious institutions and human progress, freedom, and equality. And of course, just like my experience of home life, it teaches you to be skeptical of anyone who claims that certain values are the sole preserve of one religion or another. I could easily have slipped into academia and the life of the mind but Balliol College, with its tradition of radical thought and public service, was an environment that encouraged you to apply that intellectual rigour to questions about how we should live and organise ourselves and, although I still (especially in these times) find it challenging not to retreat into the library, I felt the pull of activism.

Jacobsen: Why did you join the British Humanist Association (now Humanists UK) as a volunteer in 2002?

Copson: I first joined the BHA as a member in 2002 when the UK government began its programme to expand the number and type of state religious schools in England because I wanted to support an organisation that was campaigning on that issue. Because of my background and just a general secular assumption that many people had at that time, the expansion of state religious schools just seemed like a horrifying backwards step for community cohesion and education in general. I probably would have joined eventually in any case, to connect my personal convictions with action. I saw the BHA as the obvious organisation giving voice to humanist views in the public square, working for a secular state, and promoting the positive values of the humanist approach to life. I wanted to contribute to that and be part of a community working towards a more rational, compassionate, and fair society. A few years later when I moved to London and was unemployed, I started volunteering at the London office.

Jacobsen: When you were Director of Education and Public Affairs at Humanists UK from 2005 to 2010, what initiatives were promoted for secular education and to challenge faith schools?

Copson: Looking back on those years, they were a really crucial period. A major focus was campaigning for reform of Religious Education – moving away from confessional instruction towards a more objective and inclusive subject covering the range of major religions and non-religious worldviews like humanism. We wanted children to understand the diverse beliefs and values in society, not be indoctrinated into one. We had considerable successes in that arena as well as securing a ban on state schools teaching creationism as science. Alongside this, we strongly challenged the expansion of state-funded faith schools and their discriminatory practices, particularly in admissions – where children could be turned away based on their parents’ beliefs – and in employment. We also campaigned vigorously for comprehensive, evidence-based Sex and Relationships Education, free from religious dogma, arguing it was vital for young people’s health and wellbeing, which was scheduled to be introduced in 2010. We were very involved in the Equality Acts of 2006 and 2010 as well as in the abolition of the blasphemy law. For a young campaigner like me, it was probably an unparalleled time for liberal reform and the direct access to government that we experienced was probably the most significant in our history.

Jacobsen: You became Chief Executive of Humanists UK in 2010 at the remarkably young age of 29. Why run for that position, and what challenges and opportunities arose in advocacy then?

Copson: Actually I was appointed at 28 – the day before my 29th birthday! We can genuinely say that age is irrelevant at Humanists UK – the first chief executive in 1896, the suffragette Zona Vallnace, was 36, and our most famous, Harold Backham, was 60. But I’d already been deeply involved for several years. I felt passionately about our mission and saw huge potential. The non-religious demographic was clearly growing, and there was an increasing public appetite for humanist perspectives on ethical issues and public life. I believed I could help steer us to meet that opportunity, to professionalise further, and to increase our impact. There were challenges, navigating the complexities of influencing policy in a country with an established church and deeply embedded religious privilege. We were often pushing against very established interests. The opportunities, however, were immense. We could be a clearer, stronger voice for the non-religious, build alliances, launch impactful campaigns – like the ongoing work on humanist marriage recognition or assisted dying – and provide more support and services for the growing number of people identifying with humanist values. It was a chance to really shape the organisation for a new era. That era looked pretty bright. Before the General Election of 2010 we were seeing moves to regulate state faith schools, humanist philosophers appointed by the government to advise on a future constitution, and serious school curriculum reform prioritising critical thinking and skills for citizenship. Of course, the election of that year and the events since have meant that is not how wider politics have turned out. But I also wanted to expand the service provision aspects of Humanists UK, moving into pastoral care and other ways of providing community and support alongside our long-established ceremonies work, and that has been a great success.

Jacobsen: What motivated you to then run for the President of Humanists International in 2015?

Copson: Having led Humanists UK for five years, I’d seen firsthand the power of organised humanism to effect change nationally. But it was also starkly clear that many of the challenges we faced – threats to secularism, the promotion of human rights, the need for rational responses to global issues – were international in scope. Furthermore, humanists in many parts of the world face persecution, discrimination, and even violence simply for their non-religious convictions. I felt a strong sense of solidarity and believed that my experience in building a national organisation could be valuable in strengthening the global movement. Humanists International provides that crucial platform for international cooperation, advocacy at the highest levels like the UN, and mutual support among humanist organisations worldwide.

Jacobsen: How has your leadership at Humanists International since 2015 impacted the global humanist movement?

Copson: I hope my contribution has been to help consolidate and professionalise the organisation, making it a more effective advocate on the world stage. We’ve worked hard to amplify the voices of humanists, particularly those facing threats, at international forums like the UN Human Rights Council. We’ve strengthened the network of member organisations, fostering collaboration and sharing best practices. Key campaigns, like the End Blasphemy Laws campaign, have gained significant traction, raising global awareness of how these laws are used to suppress dissent and persecute minorities, including the non-religious. We’ve also developed resources and support systems for nascent humanist groups. It’s always a collective effort, of course, involving dedicated staff, Board members, and member organisations globally. But I hope my presidency has helped Humanists International become a more visible, impactful, and supportive hub for humanism around the world. I have particularly prioritised increasing representation from the global south and I’m very pleased that the Board I am leaving behind has members from Africa, Asia, and Latin America. The Board I first joined had members solely from the global north.

Jacobsen: Thinking about specific campaigns, what do you see as the impacts of initiatives like the Atheist Bus Campaign, the push for legal recognition of humanist marriages, or the advocacy for assisted dying?

Copson: They are all very different activities. The Atheist Bus Campaign (‘There’s probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.’) was deliberately provocative but incredibly successful in raising the profile of atheism and humanism, sparking countless conversations, and showing non-religious people they weren’t alone. It demonstrated a confidence in expressing non-religious viewpoints publicly. The campaign for legal recognition of humanist marriages is about fundamental fairness and equality. Thousands of couples want a meaningful, personal, non-religious ceremony led by a humanist celebrant, reflecting their values. Achieving legal recognition, as we have in Scotland and Northern Ireland, validates those choices and removes discrimination. The ongoing campaign in England and Wales highlights the state lagging behind public attitudes and the need for inclusive marriage laws. Advocacy for assisted dying is rooted in compassion, autonomy, and individual dignity. We want people facing unbearable suffering at the end of life to have the choice to die peacefully, on their own terms. Our role has been to provide a clear ethical framework based on reason and empathy, challenging religious opposition that seeks to deny this choice, and contributing to the growing momentum for legal change. Each of these campaigns, in different ways, work towards a society that respects non-religious perspectives, values equality, and prioritises human wellbeing and autonomy. And of course they all push back against the forces of conformity, privilege, and control which as humanists we stand against.

Jacobsen: How have your publications – The Little Book of Humanism (2020) and Secularism: Politics, Religion, and Freedom (2017) – contributed to public understanding and humanist ideas?

Copson: The intention behind the first was in part clarification. Secularism aimed to communicate a concept that is often misunderstood or deliberately misrepresented. I wanted to provide a concise explanation of what secularism is – essentially, a framework for ensuring fairness between citizens of different religions and beliefs in diverse societies, involving separation of religious institutions from the state, and guaranteeing freedom of belief for all – and why it’s crucial for democracy and human rights. The Little Book of Humanism, written during COVID-19 with Alice Roberts, was designed to be a very accessible, positive introduction to the humanist worldview – its history, its core principles, how it applies to living a meaningful life and contributing to society. The goal was to reach a broader audience, perhaps people who felt broadly humanist but hadn’t quite put a name to it, and offer a compelling vision of a life guided by reason, compassion, and shared human values. It became the first book on humanism to be a Sunday Times bestseller and that was a vindication of our intentions, I thought.

Jacobsen: Finally, Andrew, as your term as President of Humanists International concludes, what now?

Copson: My ‘day job’ as Chief Executive of Humanists UK continues! There’s certainly no shortage of work to be done. The challenges we’ve discussed – defending secularism, ensuring inclusive education, campaigning on ethical issues like assisted dying, promoting human rights – are ongoing. And they take place against a national and global backdrop of authoritarianism and illiberalism which makes the position of humanism in our age as precarious as in any. I still think the answer to that challenge is humanism and the global perspective I’ve gained over these years has greatly enhanced my commitment to that view. So, the focus remains on building the humanist movement, advocating for our values, and working towards a fairer, more ethical world for everyone.

Jacobsen: Andrew Copson, thank you so much.